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Homosexuality and Compassionate Compromise

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Gender is an essential characteristic of individual…eternal identity and purpose. ..We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife….Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother… 
 

In a world full of shades of grey and no moral absolutes, it is sometimes so difficult to understand the above principles. Especially when most of us know someone close to us who has identified as a homosexual or member of the LGBT community.
I have to admit, that when I was asked to write on this topic for Proclamation Celebration, I was a bit nervous.  It’s a difficult subject that can easily descend into conflict and pain.  How do we reconcile what the prophets and apostles have declared as doctrine to the world and the reality of what we face today as members of our families, friends, co-workers and acquaintances openly acknowledge their sexual orientation in opposition to the millenias-old morality as stated in the Proclamation?
I spent some time looking at the general pulse of Mormon culture online regarding homosexuality, and what I found was both inspiring and troubling. Inspiring, because so very many of us are trying to so hard to be kind, loving and open-minded.
So many of us on both sides are doing are level best not to cast stones or exercise unrighteous judgment.
So many of us are just really trying our hardest to compassionately understand each other.
It is truly warming, especially to my mother heart, to see the love that is being poured out.
There are some things that are troubling, though. For one, there is no room for hatred or meanness from those who profess to be Christians, as we do. That is so obvious that I can’t even believe that anyone professing to be a disciple of Christ would not understand that.
For those who employ any type of hatefulness, scripture quoting, or any other type of contentious, mean, or ugly behaviors, especially if doing it in the name of Christ, you are, as Elder Holland recently stated, just “ a whole bunch of idiots acting like moral pygmies.” (September 2012 CES Fireside)
But there is another thing that is also troubling. In all of our efforts to be kind and loving, I am afraid that at times, we don’t feel like we can do that and acknowledge the clear, precise words of the Proclamation—our doctrine– that sexual relations are only employed in marriage between a man and a woman, and that gender is an essential characteristic of our eternal identity.
Or these words from an apostle of God, further clarifying our doctrine regarding same-sex attraction:

“We should note that the words homosexual, lesbian, and gay are adjectives to describe particular thoughts, feelings, or behaviors. We should refrain from using these words as nouns to identify particular conditions or specific persons. Our religious doctrine dictates this usage. It is wrong to use these words to denote a condition, because this implies that a person is consigned by birth to a circumstance in which he or she has no choice in respect to the critically important matter of sexual behavior. ” (Dallin H. Oaks, October 1995 Ensign, currently referenced in the Gospel Library on lds.org)

No matter how much we try to love our way out of it, that doctrine is still there, sometimes glaringly painful in our relationships with those in our circles who see things so very differently.
Because we cannot compromise the commandments of God.
In fact, Elder Holland also recently stated in the same address, “Our compassion and our love must never be interpreted as compromising commandments. (CES September 2012 Fireside)
God loves all of us. He wants us to be happy. So many of us are trying so hard to figure out how to reconcile things outside of what the Proclamation teaches with true, deep, lasting happiness…and some think they have found a way to compassionately compromise—but in the end, His love does not supersede His commandments, and if we believe what we say believe, we cannot compromise.
But, let’s take religion out of it for just a moment.
And, no, I am not going to bring up all the regular arguments and positions that usually come up at this point in the conversation. In fact, my mother heart aches when I hear people contending about all of that.
What really matters is what we do about it—how we act, how we love.
And I love my homosexual friends and family very, very much. With all the nurturing and loving a mother heart can give.
And that’s one reason why this part of the Proclamation resonates with me, and it has nothing to do with politics, tolerance, acceptance, or anything like that. It has to do with quality of life and the ability to just live.
In the history of the world, the consequences and effects of the acceptance and spread of homosexuality have been linked to the decline and destruction of multiple civilizations. So, a mother who is interested in keeping her family and civilization alive would not be unreasonable in siding with history that homosexuality is not healthy for individuals or society.
To add to that, HIV, originally named GRID (gay-related immunodeficiency disease), is a disease that is spread primarily by homosexual men. Why did doctors and scientists originally name the disease GRID?
Was it political? Were they bigots? Judgmental Christians?
Hardly.
They were just calling it what it is. The name was changed when homosexual activists succeeded in lobbying and pressuring the medical establishment to switch to the generic acronym AIDS.
Does talking about that mean that I have no compassion for people who suffer from this horrible disease? No. Of course not. But, if there is a way to save even one more person from having to suffer through this disease, including the people I love, I want to use every method to prevent it, even if it hurts to hear it.
The disease doesn’t have compassion for people who identify as gay. The disease is discriminatory, not me. There is not a doubt on either side of the debate that a reduction in homosexual behaviors would result in a decrease of AIDS deaths.
That is not hate speech. That is not religious. That is not political. It just is what it is.
And in a study conducted by pro-homosexual researchers in Canada and published in the International Journal of Epidemiology, and other studies conducted by the Food and Drug Administration and the CDC:

While the medical consensus is that smoking knocks from two to 10 years off an individual’s life expectancy, the IJE study found that homosexual conduct shortens the lifespan of “gays” by an astounding “8 to 20 years” – more than twice that of smoking.

“[U]nder even the most liberal assumptions,” concluded the study, “gay and bisexual men in this urban centre are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871. … [L]ife expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men.”

Not surprisingly, [a] homosexual lobby and…the…media moved quickly to sweep the IJE study under the rug…

Consider that, according to the Food and Drug Administration, males who have sex with males, “have an HIV prevalence 60 times higher than the general population, 800 times higher than first time blood donors and 8,000 times higher than repeat blood donors.”

Adults and children who engage in homosexual conduct, especially males, are also susceptible, at an astronomical rate, to nearly all other forms of sexually transmitted disease (STD). For example, the Hepatitis B virus is about five to six times more prevalent among “gays,” and Hepatitis C is twice as common.

But perhaps most shocking are today’s syphilis rates among homosexual men and adolescents. A recent study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that although homosexuals comprise only a fraction of the population (one to two percent), they account for an epidemic 64 percent of all syphilis cases.

It is not unreasonable to hold to a belief that homosexuality is unhealthy. Quite the opposite–it is not even opinion or religion that it boils down to–it is a fact that homosexuality poses a huge health risk and is biologically unnatural.
That is not a hateful statement. Or religious. Or political. It just is what it is.
What does make me upset is the fact that the “homosexual lobby,” (which is not the same as individuals), in continually trying to hide health information about the harmful side of homosexuality, puts my friends and family who identify as LGBT in danger. Their attempts at “compassionate compromise” aren’t compassion at all–it actually can kill.
Ignorance perpetuated so it doesn’t hurt people’s feelings has never saved lives.
I cannot bear the thought of those I love having their life expectancy shortened by even a year, let alone eight to twenty.
So, I am especially grateful for the clarity of church doctrine in this matter–its pointed, unabashed clarity.
The Proclamation is a message for all human beings, regardless of sexual orientation, culture, or race—about the ideal way God wants us to live.
For many (and not just those who identify as homosexual), this ideal seems like a myth…a naively impossible fairytale. But I am grateful that in spite of the millions of tragic circumstances of so many of us, that the Proclamation has bravely been set as an ideal—as a North Star of our faith—to guide us and help know to what lifestyle we can look for greatest happiness and health.
Often, when talking about this subject, I am met with the plaintive cry,
“Well, you have no idea how hurtful and painful this is.”
And, you know, I don’t.
Because I am not you.
But, here is something to consider. No one on earth knows how you feel. And the other person who struggles with your exact same problems doesn’t know how you feel, either, because he or she isn’t you.
I remember when my daughter died, and I was told that I was now in an exclusive club of pain that no one ever wanted to be in, but here we were and there it was.
I’ve thought about that a lot, and maybe it’s important to distinguish ourselves at some point as “parents of an austistic child,” or “cancer survivors” or “moms who lost their children,” or “person struggling with same sex attraction,” but eventually, at some point, we should come to understand that we don’t need to stay in that exclusive club.
At some point, it limits us and it is only one facet of an entire, complex, beautiful soul.
Because intense suffering will come to every life worth living.
The struggle with sin and its effects comes to all people.
Heartache comes to everyone with a heart.
And sorrow comes to anyone who truly loves.
And, while it’s not the exact same trial or suffering, the pain is all real.
What we need to take from our pain and suffering is to realize that we aren’t just part of the “autistic community,” or the “LGBT community,” or any other such “demographic.”
In reality, when we pass through suffering, no matter what the cause–we are part of the community of true humanity.
The Proclamation is a gift in that the principles it espouses will help all mankind avoid the worst kinds of suffering.
As Elder Oaks once said, in his masterful sermon on Love and Law:

The love of God does not supersede His laws and His commandments, and the effect of God’s laws and commandments does not diminish the purpose and effect of His love.

I believe the Proclamation on the Family was revealed and given out of intense, divine love and that the simple, sometimes hard-to-hear plainness of it does not diminish that love, but makes it all the brighter.
It is my hope and faith that somehow, we can be the means of conveying that to all the world in the same love it has been given.

Misty is a not-so-crafty Mormon mom and a former Thespian, cheerleader, political blogger, and Australian flower farmer. She and her husband have been all over the country with their twelve children. She is a passionately opinionated sassy pants who loves writing and enjoys caring for old horses, raising chickens, organic food and dates with her husband. She blogs at J & M Ranch and Goodness Matters.

Now hop on over to We Talk of Christ, Diapers and Divinity, and Middle-aged Mormon Man to read more posts about the Family Proclamation!

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Comments

  1. Misty is my favorite. I’m so glad you chose her to write on this topic. I think she’s one of the only writers in the blogosphere that can write about it sensibly and compassionately. I love you Misty!

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  2. Very well done, as usual Misty. I would definitely send a friend or family member to read this if I there was someone in my life who was struggling with this.

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  3. Whew, what a challenge topic to tackle. I’m proud of you. Great job stating your perspective with clarity and purpose. While I don’t agree with all you stated, I appreciate how you presented it.

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  5. Fantastically done, Misty. Thank you for taking on the challenge of writing about this topic. I think I’ll have to quote this from you often: “Ignorance perpetuated so it doesn’t hurt people’s feelings has never saved lives.” Brilliant.

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  7. Ah, I should’ve known this was Misty writing…You did a beautiful job of explaining the compassion of a mother heart for ALL of God’s children. And I appreciate what you say about how every person suffers. And every heart can break…If we could remember this we might not feel so divided…Thanks, Misty.

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  9. I really appreciated your presentation of this material. I love the opportunity to define my perspective as I listen (or read) someone with the same morals as I have remind me of why I believe what I believe,

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  15. I appreciate what you have taught and the tone you’ve used.

    I’m not quite comfortable with your use of one study (published when?) to discuss the AIDS angle. Of course we know that AIDS is transmitted through sexual contact with any partner, not just same-sex partners, and through other risky behavior such as shared needle use.

    One of the greatest ways to keep from getting AIDS (or any sexually transmitted disease) is to avoid sexual contact and then have contact with only one partner who has also been tested and is AIDS-free. That’s true for hetero- and homosexual partners.

    Frankly, the case against same-sex sex is because of God’s instructions to us; you make that point well. And you (and Elder Holland, of course) are right: we ought to respond with truth, but also with compassion.

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    • Paul, I chose that one specifically because it was done by pro homosexual researchers and I was trying very hard not to appear unreasonably biased(part of my point being that there is a real threat to health, here. To me, it is not so much an angle, because I have family members who have died from AIDS, as it is a matter of being educated to save lives).

      I would highly recommend the chapter discussing HIV in the book Unprotected: A Campus Psychiatrist Reveals How Political Correctness in Her Profession Endangers Every Student by Miriam Grossman, which explains how difficult it can be to know whether or not someone is HIV/AIDS free or not.

      Great point about the best way to avoid it, though–it goes right along with what the Proclamation teaches! Thanks for the thoughtful comment.

      Reply

    • I appreciate your choice, Misty, and the way in which you used it. I still wonder about the timing, only because much earlier in the AIDS cycle, it really was a gay man’s disease. I just don’t know what the statistics are today. The book you cite in your comment makes clear STDs (including AIDS) are a danger to all students who engage in sexual activity — a true statement for sure.

      In the end, the doctrine will win the day: Families are ordained of God; children are best served when reared in loving families with a father and a mother. And you said that wonderfully.

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  20. Beautifully done! I have people I love that live homosexual lifestyles, and besides the spritual struggles they are having, I also worry and ache for their health and well being. I hope that they feel the love and compassion that I have for them– the kind you expressed so beautifully here.

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  21. I had a hard time thinking of how to word my comment but I think Paul just above me said it best. I would agree about the AID’s virus part with him as well. I think understanding for others and compassion are key. I also think that Latter Day Saints are rumored to not like homeosexual people which is completely un-true. I love your post I could not have stated the compassion, love and quotes any better:) Thanks I needed it.

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  22. I’ve had to defend my self on my stance of homosexuality many times. I live in a very liberal state, so when people hear I’m a conservative or a member of this church they suddenly assume I hate homosexuals. It’s so hard to hear because I personally don’t HATE anyone. There are people I don’t particularly like but that is because they have tried to hurt me or my family. I don’t hate anyone based on a choice I don’t agree with. I also find it interesting, as we hear constantly, “You can’t control who you are attracted too,” but then I see shows about older men attracted to teen age boys and how horrible it is and they are sent to counselling to change their attraction. We gape in sickening wonder at how they could choose to be attracted to that. And yet homosexuals have no choice. Personally if you are going to say one group of people has no choice you have to make that the umbrella rule for everyone. Everyone wants to be able to live the way that comes the most “natural” to them (Natural Manish…) but they want to do so without having to take responsibility for their actions or its affects on others. Its sad quite frankly. I don’t like idea that I didn’t have a choice to be attracted to my husband. What happens if he lets himself go and I’m no longer attracted to him? Do I just dump him? I also don’t like that “You can’t help who you love.” So loving my husband isn’t my choice? What happens if I can’t help but fall in love with someone else? “Choose who you love, love your choice.” Sorry this went a lot longer than I planned! Great article!

    Reply

    • I think it is human nature to try and make ourselves feel better by some version of “the devil made me do it,” or “I just can’t help it.” However, I think we should exercise compassionate caution in what we say in response to the arguments raised here.

      While everyone DOES have agency, some people–many times due to overwhelmingly difficult or tragic issues in their lives (of which we may or may not be aware)–may really feel that there is no way out. If there is an addiction involved, it is almost insurmountable without the help of a 12 Step Program or other intervention.

      I think we sometimes just get defensive (and by we, meaning mostly I, 🙂 ) because some people automatically assume we are hateful because our beliefs are different–which is not the case–however, if we answer in exasperation or defensiveness, it may come across the opposite of what we really feel–like we are fed up or angry.

      Maybe a better way to approach this would be to attempt to give the person hope. I think I might attempt to focus on the wonderful qualities of the person and try to “cheer them on” so to speak, and perhaps, in time, they may come to realize, through hope, that there is agency and choice and it takes a lot of courage to own that.

      Thanks for commenting and making me think further about the subject. I so appreciate that!

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  23. Thank you for addressing an important topic. I agree that love is most important factor. I would, however, point out that the life expectancy bit is based on faulty research. See this link, # 4 on list.http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/10-myths It is also interesting to note that though Elder Oaks stated that using gay and lesbian as a noun indicates homosexuality being around from birth, more recent statements from general authorities state they do not know if it is inborn. I feel it is better for members to say “I am being obedient” than to try to justify view with science, because science says something different.

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    • Aunt Michelle, thanks for taking the time to comment! However, the study I cited is not the one to which your source is referring. The study I cited was done by pro-homosexual scientists (definitely NOT the Family Research Institute), and was published in a medical journal, not a political/social forum.

      Your source is also lobbying for the political homosexual agenda, and my point was that the homosexual lobby (which is NOT the same as individuals) has tried to downplay the health risks associated with homosexuality, much as this website is doing.

      Regarding the quote I used, it is current, although it is from a talk in 1996. I try very, very hard when I write to only use what is currently taught as doctrine based on the Church’s official website/documents. This is cited as an article to read at lds.org if you click on “Teachings” and pick the Gospel Topic “Homosexuality.” Out of all the references they could choose, that is one of a very few they continue to include.

      I believe it is completely in harmony with current doctrine. Personally, I think the statement was more along the lines that we don’t define people who struggle with same-sex attraction as “gay” because it implies that there is no way to change–and it is possible to change, although perhaps not for everyone.

      I try as much as possible to avoid the “born or not” argument, because, to me, it doesn’t matter, and it’s oversimplifying a very complicated human soul. People get too upset about it, anyway and then everyone just argues. That hurts my heart. What matters is how we love, and what we do with the knowledge we have.

      I think most people on both sides of the argument would agree that homosexual sex can be risky, healthwise. I just want my friends and family who struggle with this to know the risks!

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    • Misty,

      Thanks for this article it is all very well said. I was wondering if you had a link to the study you quoted from. I would like to read it and possibly submit some of that information in an article for United Families International.

      I wanted to add one more thing. I think that if we stop being frank about the doctrine concerning homosexuality then there really is no choice left for people to consider. My sister suffers from SSA, and has often said how thankful she is for the church and true doctrine that has kept her from living the same lifestyle as many of her friends. It will be a sad day if the homosexual lobby gets what it wants and individuals and religions will no longer be able to say homosexuality is a sin or a dangerous lifestyle etc. Freedom of speech and freedom of religion really do help individuals.

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    • Diane, I will have to look it up in my notes, which I don’t have time to do right now, but if you email me, I can get it to you…( jandmranch at gmail dot com). Thanks!

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  24. Thank you so much for this topic! I have been struggling the last several months to reconcile and balance tolerance and love for those who struggle with gender issues while keeping true to the commandments of God. You wrote about it beautifully.

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  25. Thanks for your comments and your article. You did a fabulous job! I too struggle with people’s opinions of what the church teaches here in our community. The assumption is that we must hate the LGBT community and any who belong to it because we support traditional marriage and family….and a healthy community. Our view of what that means is different than theirs so we must hate each other….NOT. I wish we could learn to communicate more effectively and respectfully….like you did in this post! Thanks again!

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  29. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this important topic. I like what Elder Holland in his last CES message said about our challenge today. He said (more or less) that our challenge is to be compassionate, loving and at the same time articulate and clear in standing up for and defending the right, and that we will have many opportunities to learn how to do this. You have done this well! In my case, it is hard to find meaningful words to say to someone I love who who now embraces homosexuality. It is hard for them to understand that I really do love them, even though I strongly disagree with their choices.

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  32. Well said. I am not of the politically correct answer to everything no one wants to talk about. I just want to treat everyone the same. If we don’t agree with anyone who is a minority, we become racists, or bigots, etc etc… I like your frankness. I wish more would take up the courage. Our world political correctness is getting to be a bit overboard. I think the topic needs a refresher I our ability to choose how we respond to other people’s words or beliefs. It feels like society is looking for a reason to be mad at another person. We are binge to act, not to be acted upon… That is why I agree with your article, and commenter kayli. Well said both of you.

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  38. Thank you, Misty, for addressing the issue of homosexuality. It takes courage to venture into a topic that most people prefer to ignore. It is my belief that discussion and the light that proceeds from it will one day eradicate the stigma and bigotry endured by gay and Lesbian people, especially in the LDS Church.

    I am truly glad that you have gay friends. I’m sure they have helped to open your eyes somewhat to our lives and challenges. It is obvious, however, that you have never ridden the emotional and spiritual roller-coaster that comes with having a homosexual person central in your life. And so I would like to offer another view and opinion.

    While I wish I had the time and space to discuss your post in depth, there are two key points I would like to address.

    First, as a gay man, I honestly do not want compassion or special treatment. I do not want to be an object of pity. I love who I am and count my homosexuality a gift from Heavenly Father. I, like most gay Latter-day Saints whether active or not, recognize that I am a noun, not an adjective.

    And I am a man. Regardless of what some might teach, neither I nor most of my gay male friends have the desire or interest in being anything but men.

    As men, we are entitled to be treated fairly and equally.

    You imply that you have the right to believe that homosexuality is aberrant and only heterosexuality is ordained of God.

    I, along with most of my gay and Lesbian brothers and sisters, agree. You have that right.

    But I, like you, also have the right to believe and I believe that God generously grants his grace to homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. And because of God’s grace and my divine nature, I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, just like you.

    While I would never attempt to deprive you the rights to happiness despite our differing views and perspectives, you demand that I accept your belief as definitive. You force me under law to comply with a belief I find repugnant and contrary to moral and empirical evidence.

    Yet I do not ask you to give up your belief. I only demand that I be allowed the same respect and privilege.

    Second point, your comments regarding homosexual sex are misleading at best and utterly fail to deal with the core issues sited in the study. As a result, you do a great disservice to truth and understanding.

    The truth is that homosexual sex is no more risky than heterosexual sex. Promiscuity, not sex, leads to disease.

    If, as a homosexual man, I live in a committed monogamous relationship (like…marriage) my odds of contracting HIV, gonorrhea, syphilis, or any other STI are no greater than yours…nearly zero. My life expectancy, when involved in a committed monogamous relationship is no different from that of heterosexual men.

    The real problem is that the Latter-day Saint community forces gays and Lesbians to choose between celibacy, a state that every missionary teaches to be unnatural and unhealthy, a state that even the Endowment condemns (“It is not good for man to be alone.”) and promiscuity.

    How much more reasonable and effective to recognize and promote the core principle of chastity and fidelity rather than to leave homosexuals with the impossible choice of a life of loneliness and isolation or unnatural celibacy.

    My greatest sadness is that when nearly all homosexual Latter-day Saints recognize and accept who they are, they reject not only the church, but religion in general. And why do they reject the church and God? It is not because of an uncontrolled sexual appetite. It is because the church’s truth forces them to believe what they know from experience is not true and gives them no alternative on which to nurture faith.

    Again, I appreciate the opportunity to provide another view, an alternate opinion. I hope that with meditation and prayer you will come through the Spirit to grasp the real complexity of this issue and understand that the traditional member view of black and white neither furthers truth nor pleases God.

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    • In response to your comment, first let me say that I appreciate your candor and courage.

      Like you, there is no way I can address this topic in depth in one blog post–so this is only one small aspect of a very complex topic, so I hope you will understand that I am trying to be brief and not too in depth, as I do not wish to overtake the comment section! 🙂

      You have the right to believe whatever you wish, as all people do, and I greatly respect that right.

      I want to make it very clear that I did not merely imply that only heterosexuality is ordained of God for marriage and family life–I stated it unequivocally as my belief–as I believe in the doctrine taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

      That being said, we actually may have more in common than you realize, as I know that God’s grace is sufficient for all men and women who are willing to take advantage of it. That is the good news of the gospel–that the Atonement is available to all–male or female, bond or free, heterosexual or not. That is something on which we both can agree.

      I hope I can clarify that I did not demand anything of you or anyone else. I simply stated the doctrinal position of the apostles and prophets.

      The point of my post was that all people have differing beliefs, and we can respect each other for holding fast to our beliefs, regardless of whether or not we agree.

      I hesitated to use a study in such a short post, because all sides of an issue can do a study, call it science and truth, and all sides may be wrong. In the end, I believe we must take science and studies in the best light possible, realizing that if what God says seems to contradict the most current study, we side with God.

      I will not go into details on the percentage of homosexual men who live in committed, monogamous relationships, because that’s a whole other topic. Suffice it to say, according to recent and past statistics, there have not been and are not that many.

      Again, I believe that it is a misrepresentation to say the church is forcing anyone to do anything. On the contrary, we all have our agency, and it is our doctrine that agency is one of the most sacred gifts we have been given. If you don’t agree with the doctrine, the church is not going to force you to believe it, or follow it. It is, and always will be, your choice.

      If the laws of this land, or this gospel do not coincide with your belief system (or mine, for that matter), you (or I) are fortunate to live in a time in the history of the world where we have the right to move to another state, or another country. You (or I) have the right to seek out another faith.

      No one is forcing you to live a life of celibacy–if you choose to participate as an active member of this faith, then you are choosing a life of celibacy, not being forced to live one. There is a huge difference.

      There is a lot more complexity to the issue, but I would posit that looking at things without the shades of grey can actually help further truth. It is when we get muddied with all the shades of grey that we can no longer see the purity of truth clearly.

      Of course, I think you are more than likely referring to the type of “black and white” viewpoint that someone like Javert in Les Miserables had–the viewpoint of all justice, no mercy. Which does not please God. If that is what you are talking about, then we agree.

      Again, I thank you for your candor. I appreciate your viewpoint, and can see where you are coming from. I think there are things we have in common, and I respect your right to believe what you do, even though we may not agree. It took courage to post your opinion, and you did it in a very cogent, thoughtful way.

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  39. Hi! Here are my thoughts:

    You “love your homosexual friends and family with all the nurturing and loving a mother heart can give.” I’ve heard similar expressions from my LDS family and friends. Some of them chat with me about who I’m interested in or how my last date went. Some of them don’t acknowledge the romantic side of my life and have Yes On 8 photos in their facebook albums. I feel loved by the first group; I don’t feel loved by the second.

    What I wonder is, what does it mean to say you love a person or group of people if your actions send a different message?

    If we were talking about a parent and child, I would say it could display sound judgment and good parenting; eventually the child will grow up and the parents’ lectures and rules about not playing on the train tracks will be seen as the acts of love that they are.

    But LDS church members and gay people don’t have a parent-child relationship, and with all the longing and wistfulness a gay-raised-Mormon heart can give, I want you to know that I didn’t feel loved as I read the last half of this.

    When people affirm that they do in fact love me even though what I’m feeling from them is not love, I feel like they’re patronizing me, telling me that they know better than I do about something I’ve spent an awful lot of time trying to understand.

    Is that not what they’re doing? If so, wouldn’t it be better not to profess love that isn’t felt?

    Reply

    • Matt, I appreciate you taking the time to comment.

      I would like to point out that your comment is a great illustration of what I was trying to convey in my post–that God’s love or Christlike, divine love does not supersede His commandments. If we would love like God, we would want all men (including the person we see in the mirror everyday!) to keep the commandments, repent, and keep trying to live His gospel, because it is our belief that this is the way to eternal happiness. Any attempt at compromise would not be divine love, as it would put all men at risk to believe that somehow there is a way to avoid keeping the commandments and still somehow find lasting happiness, which cannot be.

      In the end, it cannot be my responsibility for you to feel loved from me. That is your choice. I cannot make you understand or feel a certain way. When I say that I love, I mean it–it is felt and deeply. Just because you choose not to feel that love does not mean it doesn’t exist.

      For example, there have been times in my life when I have questioned whether or not God loves me. I have even, at times, not felt His love for me. But, that does not change that He has always loved me. In the end, I must admit that I did not allow myself to feel His love for whatever reason.

      That being said, I can completely understand why it would be hard to feel the love I had while writing this post. I can. It is difficult to feel loved when someone disagrees with us. Especially on a sensitive topic. I appreciate your thoughts, and hope I was able to clarify my feelings to you.

      Reply

  40. All churches can believe what they wish. Yours is no exception. But the consequences of seeing homosexuality as something of choice, etc., and that aids is their curse (which is what you are implying) is the same attitude that has driven many gay people away from Religion, and in particular, the LDS church.

    You condemn them to being purposeless in this life–celibate and meant to have no family of their own, no one to love in a non- platonic way. And, it fails. It fails brilliantly. One day–many of you reading this will wake up and find out that your own child may be gay. Are you going to kick him/her out? Going to condemn him to the second class citizenship of being gay that the LDS church offers? Going to tell him/her to never bring home their partner because they’ll “infect” your family?

    All of this saddens me greatly. And your ignorance of the topic and of the personal experience that we as gay people experience is tragic. Compassion without judgement is a laughable goal when you are basically calling AIDS a gay curse, in not so many words.

    Reply

    • Kurt, I don’t think you understood what I was trying to say.

      If people choose another faith besides that of the LDS, it is their choice. No one is trying to drive anyone away. Our belief is that sexual relations outside of marriage between a man and a woman is a sin.

      I never implied that AIDS is anyone’s so-called “curse.” And, for the record, a very close family member who lived a homosexual lifestyle was gay and died of AIDS. I didn’t think it was his “curse.” I thought it was tragic, especially since he had no idea how the disease is actually spread, mostly due to the misinformation that the homosexual lobby and most of the world tries to teach.

      Some things are a curse, but I don’t think I have the authority to speak on that particular topic specifically, although the Proclamation states that failing to follow the doctrine it sets forth will bring upon nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. That is my belief, and I believe that if people, heterosexual or not, do not heed the warnings stated, then we will all indeed suffer.

      I don’t know where I condemned anyone, actually. I simply stated our doctrine. I do not condemn anyone, it is not within my authority, nor do I wish to. I actually prefer loving other people rather than condemning them.

      Another point I was trying to make is that we don’t necessarily have to be “gay” or “hetero” to understand feelings of frustration, hurt, abandonment, etcetera. Suffering is part of the human experience. If we can just see that everyone suffers, and quit trying to put it to a specific label, then maybe we all might get along a little better.

      If, as a parent, I might have to face a situation in which a child was having sexual relations outside of marriage (whether or not it was same gender), I would follow Elder Oaks’ council on the subject, in his masterful sermon “Love and Law.”

      Reply

  41. I am not gay. I have never had a child die. I have, however, had difficult lifelong experiences that I feel set me apart from most of my Mormon brothers and sisters. I consider these things about myself to be very personal and enduring and I see them as things that have a strong impact on my everyday happiness. I take them very seriously. Likewise, sexuality and love qualify as very personal and enduring aspects of human existence that impact everyday happiness and I imagine that our LGBT brothers and sisters take these aspects of themselves very seriously.

    I therefore have a hard time imagining that they would want our compassion or pity or that they would feel good about the idea that God or “good” Mormons think they need more compassion than you or I need. I do not want excess compassion for the things about me that I take seriously and consider to be enduring. I also have a hard time imagining that God pities our LGBT brothers and sisters more than he pities any of us. The God I would like to believe in created us all as equals and does not send plagues to kill his less favorite, pitied children who are in need of our extra care. Instead, he challenges us to love and accept one another as equals…..

    …. and we fall short of this challenge all too often…..

    Reply

    • I am sure I cannot fully comprehend the idea of “excess” compassion. The point I was trying to make, which I believe you may not have seen, is that every single human being who loves or lives has need of compassion. And there comes a time in every person’s life when “extra” care is needed. There is a reason why the Lord allows all of us to take turns being in need of compassion and care–we tend to see that as a position of weakness, but it is often in those times we experience the most growth. When we reject the compassion others are willing to offer, we miss out on so much of the tragic beauty of life.

      Sadly, I believe in our society, we are so uncomfortable with the idea of discomfort or struggle that we shy away from helping each other or asking for help because there is too little of compassion. President Monson often talks about the great need in the world to lift the hands that hang down–there are people all around us (including our own selves) in great need of compassion. The Savior’s entire mission was one of compassion. There is always room for more compassion.

      I never implied that someone who identifies as homosexual need be pitied any more or less than anyone else. I would, however, like to clarify the actual meaning of the word pity:

      Pity: The feeling of sorrow and compassion caused by the suffering and misfortunes of others.

      If the correct definition of the word were to be used, I think that a little more pity felt for others’ suffering would be a good thing in this world.

      Thank you so much for commenting–especially your first paragraph, which was exactly the point I was trying to make–that we all experience suffering, and it can be something that unifies rather than divides.

      Reply

  42. Thanks to all who took the time to comment! It has been a good discussion–while I know that all do not agree with me, those who have not have been so thoughtful and honest in talking about this issue–it has been wonderful and very encouraging.

    For those who would like to understand further what I meant about being loving while still standing firm in not compromising on my beliefs, I would highly recommend Elder Oaks’ talk from General Conference in October 2009, titled Love and Law.

    Reply

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